Atrios – Edited Comments on the Election Lost: Everything Points to Diebold
If voters can be challenged, why can’t the machines be challenged? With all the lawyers available, it looks like the voting machines could be opened to examination in questionable exit poll/real poll precincts and thoroughly reviewed by software engineers (don’t go back to Diebold to get the source). There might not be a “software” trail but who knows.
fletch | Email | Homepage | 11.03.04 – 1:36 pm | #
But what would you have Kerry do exactly?
Mathematically, Ohio is impossible with the numbers reported. Problems with voting there and elsewhere are likely deep in the electronic voting machines. It could take weeks to know if there was tampering and longer to try and prove the extent of it.
Meanwhile, if he didn’t concede, every pundit within 50 yards of a microphone would be screaming that he and all of us are delusional. 25% of the people who voted for Kerry would abandon democrats.
No, this has now moved to the kind of relentless investigation that finally got Nixon.
No one is saying the fight is not alive. The nature of the battle has just changed.
No retreat. No surrender.
I hope we make the endless investigations into Clinton look like a day in Disneyland for this administration.
Dawna
——
O.K. folks, the votes are mostly in and here is the almost truth. Colorado elects a Democratic state House and state Senate for the first time since 1960, the Democrats gain a U.S. Senate and U.S. House seat in the state, but Bush wins the Presidential race. Exist polls show Kerry doing exceptionally well across the country and there is record turnout, but Bush receives an overall majority of the popular votes cast. There is the largest paid GOTV effort directed toward young voters in history, including paid workers, but the18 to 24 year old vote slips to 10% turnout. Despite heavy turnout, the Black and Hispanic vote for Kerry in Florida and Ohio is described as “very soft”. There is only one conclusion that anyone raised
in Chicago can reach.
Folks, the fix was in! This election belongs to Diebold, Inc.! Those
machines were spinning faster than a 50s Vegas slot. And Kerry and the boys know it! That’s why they haven’t conceded. The only question is, can they prove it? And that is what this delay is all about. My suspicion is that just like 2000 the Republicans are too smart for them, but we will
see. Just keep your eye on the bouncing ball, my friends, keep your eye on the bouncing ball! The Republicans will keep shouting, “it’s over, it’s over” and try to get on to the next play faster than an NFL quarterback trying to beat the play challenge. And the poor Democrats will desperately search for the proof of rigging before it becomes too embarrassing to hold out any longer. And, eventually they will give up because there just ain’t
any paper out there to count. The machines are just sitting out there fat, sassy and satisfied, above all reproach. So hang on and enjoy the next four years my friends, because it is going to be a very bumpy ride! Any democracy that ever existed in this old country is dead and buried, and governance is just a matter of who can run the best game.
——
“NO! Goddammit, they haven’t counted all the FUCKING votes yet. What the hell happened to “every vote counts, and every vote is counted”?” – filkertom
Believe me, I feel it too.
But what would you have Kerry do exactly?
Mathematically, Ohio is impossible with the numbers reported. Problems with voting there and elsewhere are likely deep in the electronic voting machines. It could take weeks to know if there was tampering and longer to try and prove the extent of it.
Meanwhile, if he didn’t concede, every pundit within 50 yards of a microphone would be screaming that he and all of us are delusional. 25% of the people who voted for Kerry would abandon democrats.
No, this has now moved to the kind of relentless investigation that finally got Nixon.
No one is saying the fight is not alive. The nature of the battle has just changed.
No retreat. No surrender.
Kay | Email | Homepage | 11.03.04 – 12:02 pm | #
——
The fix was in. We was robbed.
A posting to the Interesting People
list referenced a couple of postings
on the Democratic Underground site.
According to it (I can’t get in as I’m not registered), here is the money quote from the posting:
“EVERY STATE that has EVoting but no
paper trails has an unexplained advantage for Bush of around +5% when
comparing exit polls to actual results.
“In EVERY STATE that has paper audit trails on their EVoting, the exit
poll results match the actual results reported within the margin of
error.”
Does everyone now realize that this is a knife fight and one can no longer play fair?
War is Peace.
Administratorte | Email | Homepage | 11.03.04 – 1:25 pm | #
——
I hope we make the endless investigations into Clinton look like a day in Disneyland for this administration.
You’re dreaming. (Not that I wouldn’t like to see it happen.)
But who exactly is going to do these investigations? Surely not our complacent media. And who would prosecute these crimes? Surely not our Justice department. And who would bring impeachment proceedings, if high crimes and misdemeanors were found? Surely not our one-party government.
Give it up.
It ain’t gonna happen.
It’s going to require something else from us. I just don’t know what that is yet.
semper ubi
——
What say we focus on getting paper trails in place by 2006 so some of our candidates will actually have a chance to win?
paper trails, in and of themselves, don’t buy you shit.
if you’re really worried about the integrity of electronic voting, you’re going to have to do better than that.
You’re going to have to come up with a voting machine architecture that can be readily built from commodity hardware, and place the design in the public domain. Better yet, enact a statutory mandate that such a design be used.
You’re going to have to insist on software development and testing procedures and processes that are open to public scrutiny.
And you’re going to have to insist on open access to source code, to the tools used to build it, and the build process itself.
Or we could just take the common-sense approach and use technology that has already been proven more reliable and more accurate than touchscreen terminals, like #2 pencils, paper cards, and optical scanners.
theodoric
——
This is NOT sour grapes! I say these things for the same reasons that I gave it my all. $$$ I did not have to spend. Time I took from my family. Emotion that bled from out of my soul.
Florida was not clean. Every poll for months and exit polling yesterday showed even up or trending Kerry. Bush wins with a 5% lead? Something really was wrong there. And with the talking heads fixated on Ohio… Florida slides away without dissent?
80% of Bush voters… voted on morality. Morality? Cheney? Tom DeLay? Abu Ghraib? Lies on WMD? What morality? What morality?
This is a BIG SCAM. And a very sad day for the country. Reason, common sense… it doesn’t matter to these right wing Christian fascists. Prepare for more war. More tax cuts for the rich. More gay bashing, an assault on abortion. The restraints are off the Bush crime family. They created this false vision of piety and goodness while the criminals, fanatics, and thugs do what they do best… lie, cheat, and steal.
I dis NOT want Kerry to concede. Let Bush claim victory… you know he wants the illusion. Did you notice that Kerry was never ahead in the EV… even late when states were going his way? Every time Kerry was given a state, a state was given to Bush? WV was called with 0% of the vote counted! Never did the talking heads allude to a Kerry victory. Never could they allow the public to dream of Kerry.
Let Bush “claim” the victory. In weeks, his real agenda of more war, more chaos, privatization of SS, rape of the environment will emerge supported by his brownshirts and nutters in Congress.
I refuse to concede ANYTHING to these right wing bastards. NOTHING. Do NOT concede anything.
Jay in Oregon | Email | Homepage | 11.03.04 – 2:56 pm
——
What say we focus on getting paper trails in place by 2006 so some of our candidates will actually have a chance to win?
CA will have paper trails by 2006. Let’s make reforming and implementing the HAVA our focus, our goal.
Start with this. Or nothing else we do matters.
I’ve been saying this all during the campaign. None of it mattered if they can steal votes. I am sure they did. One blogger called it the 2% rule – steal just 2% in every state. And then you look like you won the popular vote.
I have no doubt bush did not win the popular vote. With a 47% approval rating and upwards of 55% wanting someone new? All the polls can’t be wrong.
Start with the basics, basic voting rights.
Anonymous | Email | Homepage | 11.03.04 – 2:51 pm |
——
Just because Kerry has supposedly concedede doesn’t mean that the counting has stopped or that the proof of fraud has been discontinued.
There are several days to go yet and this may just be a different strategy.
Regardless we must all see to it that in the next election there is accountability to the voters for their votes. This cyber voting must be outlawed unless it can be verified. That is our best hope for the future.
There is no doubt that this election has been rigged and we must not accept this in the future.
Listen if they can hack and steal this election then we can also hack and steal elections. So do we need to do that in order to make everyone come to the conclusion that this must stop?
JIMBOY | Email | Homepage | 11.03.04 – 1:57 pm | #
——
They didn’t figure it out, because Bush lost in 2000, What they figured out was how to rig an election. Are you telling us that we have to stoop to stealing in order to win.
meme | Email | Homepage | 11.03.04 – 2:06 pm | #
——
Something is very, very wrong. Diebold must be held accountable. What can we do about this? The future of our country depends on figuring this e-voting thing out.
My new husband and I weren’t able to help as much as we wanted this election because of the wedding, a move halfway across the country, and career changes for both of us. But we’ll be goddamned if we’re going to sit by any longer. There are plenty of reasons to get off the couch, starting today, and give our time and effort to any group that is helping make this country better. If all of us who are currently on the sidelines become activists, we might have a prayer.
misha | Email | Homepage | 11.03.04 – 2:12 pm | #
——
I knew the fix was in when I looked at the map of Florida and saw that the Diebold machines just magically were stationed in high Demcractic voting areas, and nowhere else in the entire state.
We have been screwed, and the only way to deal with it is to remain vigilent and not let Republicans of any stripe be elected to any office.
Marty Party | Email | Homepage | 11.03.04 – 1:38 pm | #
——
Two points:
1. I’d be cautious about writing off most Americans as dummies based on this vote. I’m not yet convinced that Diebold didn’t play a part in giving the presidency to Bush and several of the Senate seats to the Republicans.
2. If you think that we can win by “giving in” in issues such as abortion, equal rights for gays, freedom of religion, etc. you are mistaken. The other side will accept your capitulation and then move even farther to the right. We were right to stand up for civil rights for African Americans, even if it lost us the South and we are right to stand up today for all of these issues.
No defeat baby, no surrender.
Hecate | Email | Homepage | 11.03.04 – 1:40 p
——
Squicker:
You win, Bush is the President, but although I may not recognize it, this is still the United States of America there is still something in this country called Freedom of Speech, for a while anyway. I will bitch about whatever the fuck I want to bitch about for as long as I want to bitch about it. Fuck you, see how freedom of speech works. Your GodHero Bush is going to continue to fuck everything up and the media will continue to ignore it, but we won’t, we are the resistance, we are the revolution and we shall hold the Asshat in the Oval Office accountable for every fucking thing that goes wrong in the next four years, and when the economy tanks worse than it ever has, we get to blame you and yours, Revolution is coming, we will change the shape of politics in this country and we will prevail. The biggest thing that is going to come out of this election is anger, we are pissed and more motivated than ever. Fuck you, Fuck Bush, fuck off.
krsaz | Email | Homepage | 11.03.04 – 1:43 pm | #
——
It won’t matter how much they screw up the economy, the war in Iraq, the environment. It doesn’t matter now. They’ve got Diebold, they don’t need the American voter. That’s all just a scam and Kerry helped them secure the continuing voter fraud by conceding first thing this morning.
They can misuse this country with impugnity.
Pen | Email | Homepage | 11.03.04 – 1:34 pm | #
——
Jesse
I do, the exit polls were very accurate in 2000, when the exit poll said Gore won in 2000, sure enough he did. Yeah, you bet I think votes were stolen, maybe the early voting gave them time to disappear.
meme | Email | Homepage | 11.03.04 – 1:28 pm | #